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| smile_seta Kaanib Gender: Male Quote | Reply | | Original Sin posted on: 8/5/2003 1:13:39 PM Naniniwala po ang mga kaanib sa Iglesia Katolika na mayroong "original sin" ang mga tao. Ayon sa aral ng kanilang iglesia, namana daw natin ang kasalanang ito sa ating mga nunong sina Adan at Eva. Kinain nila ang bungang ipinagbabawal kainin sa loob ng Halamanan ng Eden. Nilabag nila ang utos ng Dios. Bilang mga offspring daw ng mag-asawang ito, ipinapanganak na daw ang mga tao na may original sin. Ngunit, may batayan nga ba ito sa Biblia? May nabanggit ba ang Biblia regarding sa original sin.  |
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addchrstn
Moderator kaanib Gender: Male Location: Pampanga Status: Quote | Reply | |
Original Sin
replied on: 8/6/2003 4:53:15 AM quote: Heto ang kanilang mga batayan: source: Catholic Encyclopedia III. ORIGINAL SIN IN SCRIPTURE The classical text is Rom., v, 12 sqq. In the preceding part the apostle treats of justification by Jesus Christ, and to put in evidence the fact of His being the one Saviour, he contrasts with this Divine Head of mankind the human head who caused its ruin. The question of original sin, therefore, comes in only incidentally. St. Paul supposes the idea that the faithful have of it from his oral instructions, and he speaks of it to make them understand the work of Redemption. This explains the brevity of the development and the obscurity of some verses. We shall now show what, in the text, is opposed to the three Pelagian positions: 1. The sin of Adam has injured the human race at least in the sense that it has introduced death -- "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men". Here there is question of physical death. first, the literal meaning of the word ought to be presumed unless there be some reason to the contrary. Second, there is an allusion in this verse to a passage in the Book of Wisdom in which, as may be seen from the context, there is question of physical death. Wis., ii, 24: "But by the envy of the devil death came into the world". Cf. Gen., ii, 17; iii, 3, 19; and another parallel passage in St. Paul himself, I Cor., xv, 21: "For by a man came death and by a man the resurrection of the dead". Here there can be question only of physical death, since it is opposed to corporal resurrection, which is the subject of the whole chapter. 2. Adam by his fault transmitted to us not only death but also sin, "for as by the disobedience of one man many [i.e., all men target=_blank> were made sinners" (Rom., v, 19). How then could the Pelagians, and at a later period Zwingli, say that St. Paul speaks only of the transmission of physical death? If according to them we must read death where the Apostle wrote sin, we should also read that the disobedience of Adam has made us mortal where the Apostle writes that it has made us sinners. But the word sinner has never meant mortal, nor has sin ever meant death. Also in verse 12, which corresponds to verse 19, we see that by one man two things have been brought on all men, sin and death, the one being the consequence of the other and therefore not identical with it. 3. Since Adam transmits death to his children by way of generation when he begets them mortal, it is by generation also that he transmits to them sin, for the Apostle presents these two effects as produced at the same time and by the same causality. The explanation of the Pelagians differs from that of St. Paul. According to them the child who receives mortality at his birth receives sin from Adam only at a later period when he knows the sin of the first man and is inclined to imitate it. The causality of Adam as regards mortality would, therefore, be completely different from his causality as regards sin. Moreover, this supposed influence of the bad example of Adam is almost chimerical; even the faithful when they sin do not sin on account of Adam's bad example, a fortiori infidels who are completely ignorant of the history of the first man. And yet all men are, by the influence of Adam, sinners and condemned (Rom., v, 18, 19). The influence of Adam cannot, therefore, be the influence of his bad example which we imitate (Augustine, "Contra julian.", VI, xxiv, 75). On this account, several recent Protestants have thus modified the Pelagian explanation: "Even without being aware of it all men imitate Adam inasmuch as they merit death as the punishment of their own sins just as Adam merited it as the punishment for his sin." This is going farther and farther from the text of St. Paul. Adam would be no more than the term of a comparison, he would no longer have any influence or causality as regards original sin or death. Moreover, the Apostle did not affirm that all men, in imitation of Adam, are mortal on account of their actual sins; since children who die before coming to the use of reason have never committed such sins; but he expressly affirms the contrary in the fourteenth verse: "But death reigned", not only over those who imitated Adam, but "even over them also who have not sinned after the similitude of the transgression of Adam." Adam's sin, therefore, is the sole cause of death for the entire human race. Moreover, we can discern no natural connexion between any sin and death. In order that a determined sin entail death there is need of a positive law, but before the Law of Moses there was no positive law of God appointing death as a punishment except the law given to Adam (Gen., ii, 17). It is, therefore, his disobedience only that could have merited and brought it into the world (Rom., v, 13, 14). These Protestant writers lay much stress on the last words of the twelfth verse. We know that several of the Latin Fathers understood the words "in whom all have sinned", to mean, all have sinned in Adam. This interpretation would be an extra proof of the thesis of original sin, but it is not necessary. Modern exegesis, as well as the Greek Fathers, prefer to translate "and so death passed upon all men because all have sinned". We accept this second translation which shows us death as an effect of sin. But of what sin? "The personal sins of each one", answer our adversaries, "this is the natural sense of the words `all have sinned.'" It would be the natural sense if the context was not absolutely opposed to it. The words "all have sinned" of the twelfth verse, which are obscure on account of their brevity, are thus developed in the nineteenth verse: "for as by the disobedience of one man many were made sinners." There is no question here of personal sins, differing in species and number, committed by each one during his life, but of one first sin which was enough to transmit equally to all men a state of sin and the title of sinners. Similarly in the twelfth verse the words "all have sinned" must mean, "all have participated in the sin of Adam", "all have contracted its stain". This interpretation too removes the seeming contradiction between the twelfth verse, "all have sinned", and the fourteenth, "who have not sinned", for in the former there is question of original sin, in the latter of personal sin. Those who say that in both cases there is question of personal sin are unable to reconcile these two verses. Heto naman ang ilan pang opisyal na pahayag nila tungkol sa original sin: quote: quote: Ngunit ayon sa Biblia tama ba ang pagkaunawa nila sa original sin? |
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smile_seta
Kaanib Gender: Male Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 8/21/2003 12:45:12 PM by smile_seta |
Original Sin
replied on: 8/21/2003 12:43:51 PM Ito po ang meaning ng ORIGINAL SIN batay sa newadvent.org / Cathoilc Encyclopedia: Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam. From the earliest times the latter sense of the word was more common, as may be seen by St. Augustine's statement: "the deliberate sin of the first man is the cause of original sin" (De nupt. et concup., II, xxvi, 43). It is the hereditary stain that is dealt with here. As to the sin of Adam we have not to examine the circumstances in which it was committed nor make the exegesis of the third chapter of Genesis. Batay nga po sa meaning na iyan, meron nga ba talagang original sin na namana ang mga tao? Nasa biblia nga po ba ang pagmamanang ito. Isipin at suriin natin.
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Yirmeyahu
Kaanib Gender: Male Site Admin Status: Quote | Reply | |
Original Sin
replied on: 9/8/2003 1:43:45 PM quote: Ang kasalanan hindi namamana. Ang kasalanan ay pagsalangsang sa kautusan (1 Jn 3:4) kaya mali ang konsepto na ang kasalanang ginawa ni Adan ay minana ng mga bata kaya dapat daw binyagan. Eze 18:20 Ang kaluluwa na nagkakasala, mamamatay: ang anak ay hindi magdadanas ng kasamaan ng ama, o magdadanas man ang ama ng kasamaan ng anak; ang katuwiran ng matuwid ay sasa kaniya, at ang kasamaan ng masama ay sasa kaniya. |
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grandslam
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 4/29/2004 12:16:40 AM by grandslam |
Original Sin
replied on: 4/29/2004 12:13:40 AM ang bawat salita ay may dalawa o higit pang definition. And kasalanan ni Adan ay original in the sense na ito ang una. Ang simbahan Katoliko ay naniniwala na si Adan ay biniyayaan ng tinatawag na "sanctifying grace". Ito ay grace para makaharap ang diyos face-to-face. Kung hindi nagkasala si Adan, ang grace na ito ay maipapasa sa kanyang anak. Sa kanyang pagkakasala, hindi niya ito naipasa sa kanyang anak. Ito ang original sin. Ang sanctifying grace na ito ay ibinabalik ng binyag. Kung ang sanggol ay namatay na hindi nabinyagan, hindi siya makararating sa langit subali't naroon sila sa isang "kalagayan" na hindi naghihirap at hindi nila panghihinayangan ang langit sapagka't wala silang alam dito. Hindi ito explicit sa Biblia subali't ito ay implicit. Para bang "reading between the lines". Ito ang pinaka layman's explanation ng original sin ng mga sanggol. Hindi ito kasalanang ginawa, kundi ang kawalan ng sanctifying grace sa bawa't sanggol na isisilang. Kung ang baby na hindi bininyagan ay makararating pa rin sa langit, kontradiksiyon ito sa sinabi ni Pablo na "ALL have sinned and FALL SHORT of the glory of God." |
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saintegermaine
Neutral na taga-sanlibutan Gender: Male Location: Sta. Ana Manila, Phils. Quote | Reply | |
Original Sin
replied on: 12/19/2004 6:16:12 PM Ano Yirmeyahu wala ka kay seta no sagutin mo!!! yabang mo ha bible genius (i'm not insulting here ha) but if you will recall biology the genes of couples is passed unto their child so example a father is an angryman the child is also an angryman bcos of law of heredity if i'm not mistaken no reply if i'm wrong |
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saintegermaine
Neutral na taga-sanlibutan Gender: Male Location: Sta. Ana Manila, Phils. Quote | Reply | |
Original Sin
replied on: 12/19/2004 6:19:31 PM the original sin is the sin of trangression of God's will not Adam's fault so a child is baptized in order to become holy and not be of the devil he/she may become "tiyanak" |
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slimzky
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Original Sin
replied on: 12/24/2004 9:41:15 PM nakakaawa ang Iglesia Katolika.. masyado na silang nailigaw ng mga aral na wala sa bibliya at labag sa bibliya... kung ang tunay na relihiyon ay Iglesia Katolika, di sana ngkaganto ang bansa natin dahil tayo ay bansang Katoliko... tsk .. tsk.. tsk.. ligaw na ligaw na... mga pare, mgbasa nmn kayo ng bible at i-encourage nyo ang members nyo... isa pa,, "be biblical" para kayong mga kulto... Marco (neutral) |
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Iakobos
Kaanib Gender: Male Location: Manila Quote | Reply | |
Original Sin
replied on: 1/11/2005 11:54:58 AM quote: Ang bata kahit di binyagan ay holy sa paningin ng Dios |
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Angakingdaan
Quote | Reply | |
Original Sin
replied on: 3/11/2005 8:19:50 AM Ang bata kahit di binyagan ay holy sa paningin ng Dios - Maaari pero paano mo natiyak? nakakaawa ang Iglesia Katolika..- bakit? masyado na silang nailigaw ng mga aral na wala sa bibliya at labag sa bibliya... - alinng mga aral? kung ang tunay na relihiyon ay Iglesia Katolika, di sana ngkaganto ang bansa natin dahil tayo ay bansang Katoliko... - bakit ba ganito ang bansa natin? Kung di Katoliko ang bansa natin, wala kayo rito... -tsk .. tsk.. tsk.. ligaw na ligaw na kayo. -mga pare, wag lang basa ang gawin nyo sa bible intindihin nyo at i-encourage nyo ang members nyo... isa pa, para na kayong kulto... the original sin is the sin of trangression of God's will not Adam's fault so a child is baptized in order to become holy and not be of the devil - what is God's will? he/she may become "tiyanak" - ??? Ang kasalanan hindi namamana. Ang kasalanan ay pagsalangsang sa kautusan (1 Jn 3:4) kaya mali ang konsepto na ang kasalanang ginawa ni Adan ay minana ng mga bata kaya dapat daw binyagan. - isipin namang mabuti... Eze 18:20 Ang kaluluwa na nagkakasala, mamamatay: ang anak ay hindi magdadanas ng kasamaan ng ama, o magdadanas man ang ama ng kasamaan ng anak; ang katuwiran ng matuwid ay sasa kaniya, at ang kasamaan ng masama ay sasa kaniya. - alam mo ba ibig sabihin nito? Naniniwala po ang mga kaanib sa Iglesia Katolika na mayroong "original sin" ang mga tao. Ayon sa aral ng kanilang iglesia, namana daw natin ang kasalanang ito sa ating mga nunong sina Adan at Eva. Kinain nila ang bungang ipinagbabawal kainin sa loob ng Halamanan ng Eden. Nilabag nila ang utos ng Dios. Bilang mga offspring daw ng mag-asawang ito, ipinapanganak na daw ang mga tao na may original sin. Ngunit, may batayan nga ba ito sa Biblia? May nabanggit ba ang Biblia regarding sa original sin. - dinitalye mo na a? |
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